Alternative Spirituality

» spiritalk - Women's Liberation

In response to Women's Liberation posted by pink101:

I see the changing times much the same way. Everyone is running to something..but they don't know what.

We have come through times of prosperity when we all worked and prospered to times of both parents having to work to keep their homes. Sometimes the past looks good in these areas! but there has to be a future even more available and comfortable.

People are working under the latest coined phrase...24/7....meaning no time to self develop and understand each other. Some days I just feel like...stop the world, I want to get off! The pace is killing us all (young).

I don't have all the answers..but I sure have a lot of questions! And that is another thing the 'me generation' has lost...the ability to question without throwing everything from the past away.

I am not a biblical scholar, nor do I have that much interest in that direction, as you may have guessed, but my reference to Paul was in reference to sexist literature. He is the original sexist (pig) before the coining of the phrase.

God bless, j

-- posted by spiritalk

» pink101 - A Liberal Socialist democrat.

In response to Women's Liberation posted by spiritalk:
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"He is the original sexist (pig) before the coining of the phrase."
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Oh, now, there certainly were sexist (pig)s before Paul. In fact, from what I recall, off hand, about Paul's writings, he was pretty strong into women's rights compared to his contemporaries. But, that's another story.
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Otherwise, your post? Yupper. I agree. A lot of questions. So much hypocracy and too much of "I got mine--you get yours". I am a liberal and probably qualify as some kind of a socialist democrat. (small d democrat)
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:)

-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Paul's "Gospel"

In response to Women's Liberation posted by Migisi:

Please cite the verse where Paul refers to his epistles as a "Gospel."

I think what he's saying is that he is one of the messengers of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The word "gospel" actually means "good news," and Paul certainly was spreading what he thought was good news about Jesus.

But perhaps we split hairs here. If you want to consider Paul's epistles as gospels, then I don't really agree with that - but it's not a point worth debating. So, I yield. :-)

» Brian Tubbs - Pig?

In response to Women's Liberation posted by spiritalk:

Come on, J. That's a wee-bit harsh, don't you think. Paul endorses husbands as the head of the family, says women should be "silent" in the church in the context of speaking in tongues and interpreting the tongues, and that they should not "teach or preach" in the church. Does this make him "sexist"? Maybe - that is, if his words are NOT inspired by God. (If they are inspired by God, then your beef is with God - but that's another matter).

Even if you're right on those issues and Paul is completely wrong, there's no need to resort to name-calling or character defamation. Besides, you negate all the good that Paul did.

It's like judging George Washington solely on the count that he owned slaves, and ignoring all the tremendous things he did for the United States (including most especially refusing to become a king or dictator).

Cut Paul a little slack.

» Jolinda - Pig?

In response to Pig? posted by BrianTubbs:
"Does this make him "sexist"? Maybe - that is, if his words are NOT inspired by God. (If they are inspired by God, then your beef is with God"

Hey hey - look at that - I actually agree! Though I'll throw "your definition of" in front of "god".

As for George Washington, the analogy is apt:
Women judging Paul is like the slaves judging George - they have a genuine bone to pick, no matter what else he may have done.

And lets face it - Paul has had an immense impact on western culture as a whole.

-- posted by Jolinda

» spiritalk - Pig?

In response to Pig? posted by BrianTubbs:

Come on, J. That's a wee-bit harsh, don't you think. Paul endorses husbands as the head of the family, says women should be "silent" in the church in the context of speaking in tongues and interpreting the tongues, and that they should not "teach or preach" in the church. Does this make him "sexist"?

YES! Being a woman in any church organized religious or spiritual context is totally dismissed in this statement and is condoned and even encouraged by this particular writer.

IMO the Bible is a history book on cultural and social mores from a long gone era. If the populace (both male and female) can not grow with the times, there is always stagnation. Hence, when entrenching all your beliefs in a long ago missle, there is no growth.

I know many wonderful people who gain inspiration from the Bible and would not dismiss this inspiration for anything. But reality teaches me that many things re: the Bible. Using it as one's only proof for discussion has certainly had its problems at Suite.

God bless, J

-- posted by spiritalk

» spiritalk - Pig?

In response to Pig? posted by Jolinda:

Considering Paul's stance on females, I would sincerely like a direction to look for what

Paul has had an immense impact on western culture as a whole.

I guess I am missing something?

God bless, J

-- posted by spiritalk

» Brian Tubbs - More on Paul

In response to Pig? posted by spiritalk:

You say "this particular writer." I take it you are calling into question whether Paul actually wrote these letters? There's little doubt he wrote most of the letters ascribed to him, including I Corinthians (which is the book that, I believe, holds that women should be silent in the church in the context of tongues-speaking and interpretation). There is more doubt regarding the pastoral epistles (I & II Timothy and Titus), however I see no compelling reason to disagree with the text and the early church fathers - both of which clearly affirm Pauline authorship.

So, we ARE talking about Paul here.

» Brian Tubbs - Impasse

I wish to ask everyone a question....

Are we at an impasse here? When it comes to these issues - very sensitive issues that too often lead to shouting matches, fights, etc - must Christians who believe in the divine inspiration of the Bible jettison those beliefs in order to be accepted by those who embrace "progressive" positions on these issues?

Put another way...

It seems that a Bible-believing Christian (and, by that term, I mean folks who embrace the Bible as inspired and authoritative - and who subscribe to the basic tenets of Christianity) is seen as an obstacle to those who advocate for feminism, gay rights, etc.

Am I right?

» Migisi - Paul's "Gospel"

In response to Paul's "Gospel" posted by BrianTubbs:

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Please cite the verse where Paul refers to his epistles as a "Gospel."
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Romans 2:16
This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

-- posted by Migisi