Alternative Spirituality

» spiritalk - What's Their Real Problem?

In response to What's Their Real Problem? posted by Migisi:

To answer only your last question...it is all about restrictions. That is the bottom line of any discussion on 'rights' under any title. We have fought for woman's rights, black rights, now it is time for gay rights.

There will be many that side track the issues and go off on tangents. But when all is said...it is about rights.

God bless,J

BTW I never laughed at slap stick and found those you mentioned obnoxious. I don't understand why anyone finds someone else's pain funny?

Modern comedians have a lack of tact that is not only uncomfortable to listen to the language it is downright nasty.

-- posted by spiritalk

» pink101 - What's Their Real Problem?

In response to What's Their Real Problem? posted by Migisi:
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"All this said, what's this got to do with gay civil rights?"
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Everything.
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It's all about how we're being mediated. It's not just the Three Stooges. I used to put on Saturday morning children's programs on behalf of local police officers' associations complete with police officers in uniform to meet and greet the children with their mothers and fathers providing chances for personal interaction with children who learned that the cops were their friends. It was a great program. We had treats for everyone, magicians, door prizes, and movie cartoons. But, it could get all blown away with just one short Three Stooges movie. It's a way we've been taught about what is and is not ethically correct behavior.
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Mediation is about how special groups need special rights to protect their self esteem. It's about being a mommy's boy and a lot of other things. But, more than anything else, it's about being taught how to think about reality--what's important--where do we put our emphasis--what are our priorities? I'm all for gays having the best possible experience of life; but, I'm also for society's greater good. I'm not going to post here as though I think homosexuality is a value that needs to be upheld--I don't believe that for one moment. It's a symptom that points to something else. Human rights, civil rights, we all have the same ones. Handicaps? Maybe some classes of people need handicaps? I can't play golf for crap--my handicap is around 50.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - I'll Be Damned

In response to What's Their Real Problem? posted by pink101:
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By the way, the United Way wanted my work to be seen as a charity.
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I'll be damned if building relationships between the people and their police is a charity. I will not agree that the government has a role in defining such important relationships.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - What's Their Real Problem?

In response to What's Their Real Problem? posted by spiritalk:

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There will be many that side track the issues and go off on tangents. But when all is said...it is about rights.
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Agreed. I think knowing about and understanding the side issues surrounding human rights is important.
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... I don't understand why anyone finds someone else's pain funny?
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And I laughed at Dan Rowan and Dick Martin (Laugh In), Red Skelton, Laurel and Hardy, and Burns and Allen too.
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Modern comedians have a lack of tact that is not only uncomfortable to listen to the language it is downright nasty.
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Sure... some, but not all.

-- posted by Migisi

» RichardSpeaks - What's Their Real Problem?

In response to What's Their Real Problem? posted by Migisi:
First and foremost, homosexuality is inborn, no matter what Christians, other religionists or even scientists say or think. And the fight for their rights will continue.

Second, at one time, women were considered inferior DUE TO BIBLICAL INJUNCTION. Still are in many circles. Voting by women was once considered against God's order and would bring condemnation to both the woman and to the culture which allowed such corruption. Follow??

Third, slaves, as I mentioned earlier, should remain slaves. Their freedom comes in the next life. (Biblically ref'd again, of course.) God has ordained them to that place in this world. Ask any slave-owning Christian of the 19th C. And some current residents of Montgomery, or Natchez.

And finally, according to more than 120 verses in the New Testament, God has indeed created those who are damned from birth, even "before the foundation of the earth." Just ask Jean (John) Cauvin (Calvin). Oh, I know. There are those who say the NT teaches free will. Wrong. Only about 20 verses suggest free will. And Calvin easily reconciled them to the 120 Predestination verses. Try reconciling in the other direction. Nigh on impossible.

Conclusion: human rights should never be dictated according to any religious belief, even if it's positive. Whenever religion has been in the social driver's seat, chaos has eventually ensued. The Founding Fathers knew that; so did the Islamic scholars prior to the 20th century.

A god who sticks his supernatural finger into the natural mix of things is not to be trusted. And in fact, does not exist.

-- posted by RichardSpeaks

» pink101 - What's Their Real Problem?

In response to What's Their Real Problem? posted by RichardSpeaks:
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"First and foremost, homosexuality is inborn, no matter what Christians, other religionists or even scientists say or think. And the fight for their rights will continue."
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Let's see. Are you saying that human sexuality and preferences are encoded in the genes? Is that like saying that some people are genetically predispositioned to affiliate with Episcopaleans rather than Catholics?
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Seeing that our sexuality is a culturally learned behavior, how is it that homosexuality is inborn? The thing that's inborn is sexuality itself. It has been document that there is such a thing as marking. Early sexual experiences have the tendency to mark our future preferences and tendencies.
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I'd like to see some evidence that shows sexual preferences are determined in our genes.
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And, if I see the evidence, I'll be open to it.
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-- posted by pink101

» Migisi - What's Their Real Problem?

In response to What's Their Real Problem? posted by pink101:

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I thought this was a pretty good article, Pink.
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Homosexuality: A Paradox of Evolution
http://www.adherents.com/misc/paradoxEvo...

-- posted by Migisi

» RichardSpeaks - What's Their Real Problem?

In response to What's Their Real Problem? posted by pink101:
Be ready to be open, then.

Recently on such TV channels as PBS, Discovery, Science, and the like, there have been programs about studies and experiments showing the genetic differences between male and female brains, that various chemical combinations and arrangements can determine personality characteristics. And yes, even sexual orientation. It's not conclusive yet, but it is headed in that direction. Keep watching for new info. The Church and other kaboshers are already mounting a campaign against the new research.

Choosing Episcopalians over Catholics is quite different from choosing your own gender over the opposite. However, be aware of this: the urge toward religion may also be inborn, a sort of "God" gene. More to follow.

Ultimately, choosing your sexual orientation is not the same as choosing whom you will have sex with. Many gay men and lesbians have married, raised children, and never let anyone know they were gay. Also, many have remained celebate once they realized they were gay and that it clashed with their religious beliefs. Ask any number of priests, nuns, and Muslim clerics.

Point: gay is not a choice; gay sex is. Straight is not a choice; straight sex is. Greed is not a choice; altruism is. Emotion is not a choice; repression is. Belief is not a choice; object of belief is.

One last thing. St. Paul was not the bearer of any kind of Final Truth. To debate someone's life in light of Paul's so-called letters is a travesty. Chances are, he didn't even know such stuff was being written in his name. And why should anyone believe he actually had some mystical vision on the road to Damascus? I wasn't there; it could all be, and probably is, hearsay.

-- posted by RichardSpeaks

» spiritalk - What's Their Real Problem?

In response to What's Their Real Problem? posted by Migisi:

I have found that a sense of humor is as personal to everyone as any other aspect.

God bless, J

-- posted by spiritalk

» spiritalk - What's Their Real Problem?

In response to What's Their Real Problem? posted by pink101:

Genetically all human beings as fetus' are female. The gender (which would have a basis in sexuality) comes with the genetalia as well as the chemicals of the brain. It seems to me this would take us back to born vs environment.

God bless, J

-- posted by spiritalk